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Historian Joanne Freeman on the near scuffle between Mike Rogers and Matt Gaetz

John Fea   |  January 7, 2023

Here is part of what I wrote last night after the fourteenth ballot for Speaker of the House:

Before the end of the vote, McCarthy had to walk up the aisle to talk to Matt Gaetz to try to get him to change his vote. What a walk of shame. Imagine a guy who has wanted to be Speaker his entire life forced to beg accused sexual offender Matt Gaetz to vote for him as the American public watches on CSPAN. As McCarthy spoke to Gaetz, Rep. Mike Rogers of Alabama (a McCarthy supporter) lunged at Gaetz and screamed at him. There was no caning, but it was certainly dramatic. By the way, if blows did break out it would not have been the first time. Check out Joanne Freeman’s book The Field of Blood: Violence in Congress and the Road to Civil War.

I was hoping Freeman would comment on what happened last night. But before I share her thoughts, watch what happened on the floor of the House. Mike Rogers is the guy with the orange tie who had to be contained.

Here is Freeman today at The New York Times (although it appears she wrote this before the events of last night):

In recent days, we’ve watched congressional Republicans reap the whirlwind. In campaigning for the 2022 midterm elections, the G.O.P. rode a wave of extremism, saying little about the politics of hate and denial practiced by some of its candidates in an effort to capture votes.

The party is now paying a price for its silence. Its members are grappling with the reality of working with people who loudly and proudly challenge political institutions and the democratic process — in a democratic institution. During the speakership battle, that small group of extremists held the House of Representatives hostage.

This was far from the first time the House was mired in a stalemate over the speakership. It’s the 15th such battle in Congress’s history, and the ninth time that electing a speaker required more than three ballots.

Each of those times, the struggle was a litmus test of the state of party politics and the state of the nation. Our recent contest was much the same, exposing party fractures and irreconcilable differences, but unlike previous battles, it lacked a policy- and legislation-bound core. More than anything else, it was about power — a gap that reveals much about the state of the nation.

Take the speakership struggle of 1855-56, the longest in American history. It ultimately lasted two months and 133 ballots. Why? Because the fight over the fate of slavery created party chaos. The Whig Party was dying. The Democratic Party was splintered over slavery. A newer third party — the nativist Know Nothing Party (or the American Party) — had gained a block of seats, and there was an amorphous antislavery party forming: the Republican Party.

In this way, the 1855-56 speakership contest was like the present one. It was a product of fractured party politics. Finding one candidate who satisfied the many voting blocs was near impossible, and on the unyielding question of slavery compromise was difficult, if not impossible.

Read the rest here.

And now here is Freeman on the Rogers-Gaetz confrontation:

Holy crap. https://t.co/lauZcFeFNQ

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

NOOOOOOOOOOO. https://t.co/JGbTBgqtBG

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

Tell me about it. https://t.co/ff5oLaOO7U

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

OH GOOD https://t.co/xCQASrzm6J

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

WHAT THE HELL

In 1859 the Speaker contest led to physical fights on the House floor.

PLEASE please don't go all historical on me, congress-folks.

Please.

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

Have to confess.
I will always remember that one congressman lunged at another, and a bazillion people immediately tweeted IS @JBF1755 WATCHING?

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

I suppose this is the moment to say….

Hey. You might want to read my book.
About congressmen lunging at each other.
And punching each other.
And pulling guns and knives on each other.

Something that SHOULDN'T BE HAPPENING NOW https://t.co/MymUaHQfe8

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

OH HOLY CRAP
Truly.
I'm verklempt. https://t.co/drTMKZvPtJ

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

Truth.

And I particularly love the fact that James Buchanan said this. https://t.co/SZjqAdbS3u

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

In the congressional record of the 1830s, 1840s, and 1850s, this would be described as "There was a slight sensation in the back of the chamber" — with nothing more said.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you: about 17 years of my research life. https://t.co/NXGIOXOc5S

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

Here you go, folks.

The "sudden sensation" that just happened — as the congressional record of the 1840s would have described it.

H/T @robmickey https://t.co/35dWfL30sR

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

Welp. pic.twitter.com/4e1Mg7DBTC

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

Actually, yes.
What I just saw did look like my image (and the accounts I've read) of confrontations in Congress.

Someone lunges at someone.
Someone tries to hold him off.
Often it stops there.
If it goes further, congressmen stand on chairs and desks to get a look. https://t.co/QGQHNwEjHF

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

Gonna need a bigger book.

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

Don't say this.
Someone will believe it.
Because people seem willing to believe anything. https://t.co/yADDpEuPnk

— Dr. Joanne Freeman (@jbf1755 on lots o’ platforms) (@jbf1755) January 7, 2023

Filed Under: Way of Improvement Tagged With: 118th Congress, 19th century America, antebellum America, Congress, history of violence, House of Representatives, Joanne Freeman, Kevin McCarthy, Matt Gaetz, Mike Rogers (AL Congressman), political history, political violence, Speaker of the House, violence

Reader Interactions

Comments

  1. Richard says

    January 7, 2023 at 2:05 pm

    People seem very happy about this incident. I’m sure this is not a Christian reaction.

  2. Richard says

    January 7, 2023 at 2:14 pm

    Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth 1 Cor 13:6

  3. C says

    January 7, 2023 at 4:35 pm

    Personally, I think this is overblown. My unsanctified parts enjoy such division amongst the GOP (my former party) and I can understand how Mr Gaetz would illicit such a response. But the video is much less indicting than the photographs. It seems Mr Rogers was not happy, but he really had no clear “shot” at Gaetz – basically 3 bodies between the two. If the other individual did not pull him back and accidently grab his face if would have been nothing to talk about, but that act, and the photos taken with the individual “pulling” Mr Rogers back creates the illusion this was a serious dust-up. In a history class I think this photo would be a good discussion starter where an actual video shows the event not to be what actually happened or the narrative around the photo. I know there are a few famous photos I have seen and thought one thing and then had the benefit of seeing a video and a different, or more complete, story was told.

    That being said: I enjoyed Dr Freeman’s work on this subject and have heard her speak a few times and, well, this is but proof of how tame (less violent) we really are today compared to our past.

  4. John Fea says

    January 8, 2023 at 12:59 pm

    Richard: How does this verse apply to a historian trying to put what happened in context?

  5. John Fea says

    January 8, 2023 at 1:05 pm

    You’re probably right, C. From what I am hearing Rogers also yelled “I’m going to take you out” (or something like that).

  6. Richard says

    January 9, 2023 at 9:38 am

    Because the whole reaction on the part if reporters and others is to be delighted that it happened. What is so wonderful about a person being overcome by anger and trying to harm another persn? What is edifying about it? It sounds a lot like rejoicing in evil to me.